kobo1d
We’re back for another round of discussion on One D&D playtest rules, where we have a roundtable discussion of Tabletop Builds writers and editors (a.k.a “carpenters”), edit it slightly, and post it to the site. The topic this time is the Warrior and Mage focused D&D playtest packet, “Player’s Handbook Playtest 5.”
If you would like to skip to specific discussion sections:
- Initial Impressions
- Weapon Mastery
- Feats
- Barbarian
- Berserker
- Fighter
- Champion
- Sorcerer
- Draconic Sorcery
- Warlock
- The Fiend
- Wizard
- Evoker
- Closing Thoughts
kobo1d
We’re going to go into each section as usual, but first, what is your overall impression this time in a sentence or two?
Richard Tavadon
Martials lul. Wizard Buffed =)
Quetzalcoatlus
I am beginning to doubt that the design team or teams have any concern about making a balanced game.
Icebrick1
This has some interesting ideas, and I can see the “logic” of most of the changes, but overall it is disappointing to see how powerful the promised weapon masteries are not, and how they don’t make up for the loss of Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master. And of course, there are the significant buffs to Wizard and Sorcerer, which is just increasing the martial/caster gap.
Lilith
Some wording cleanup, some became much more wordy to clarify for edge cases, a lot of shifting old things around for no change. Some extremely questionable design choices, and the core problems of the game remain unaddressed, if not further exaggerated.
The Pi Guy
Wotc shows they still know how to make interesting features, but they’ve forgotten about balance.
seacliff
I’m glad that WotC recognized the Caster/Martial discrepancy and buffed Sorcerers and Wizards. A very much-needed change. Sarcasm aside, this UA is a massive mixed bag of weird and interesting ideas.
kobo1d
The first piece of the martial puzzle here in the packet is Weapon Mastery. What do you think of the system itself? Is it interesting, powerful, fun?
Lilith
“Shortsword has returned to being a Martial weapon” struck me as particularly funny.
Icebrick1
I think the system is good in concept, and honestly, I’m not sure how you could buff the masteries further without making them ridiculous (well… a few like Flex could easily be buffed). The problem is they still don’t do enough to address the damage gap between OneD&D Martials and optimized 5e Martials with Sharpshooter and Great Weapon Master.
The Pi Guy
It’s interesting, but seeing the level of swapping weapons every turn to get maximum effects out of all of the masteries seems like a nightmare to manage as a dm and a player in actual play.
Quetzalcoatlus
The direction of making weapons more distinct is a good one, but the results for play in this case were horrendous.
Haen
We have three noteworthy masteries – Push, Slow, Topple. Graze is okay, the others are mostly negligible. Heavy crossbows got better thanks to Push, at least.
Lilith
Cleave: Basically horde breaker, neat and impactful Flex: Wow +1 damage amazing Graze: Cute, better as a universal feature or add-on than a specialized perk though Nick: I thought this is already the twf overhaul? Push: At will forced movement for martials, awesome Sap: Cute, but weapons you use this with are bad Slow: It’s nice, good combo with other control effects Topple: Even with con save, this is still free trip attack, dope Vex: Advantage as long as you keep hitting, very cool, but LMAO this is further buff to ranged damage output.
The Pi Guy
I saw some posts that were swapping between 4 weapons.
Icebrick1
If the Nick and Polearm Mastery interaction are cleaned up, I think the annoying switching patterns are mostly cleaned up. (For those unaware, you can use the additional attack from Two-Weapon Fighting with Nick and combine it with the bonus action attack from PAM by switching weapons.)
Of course, if this interaction is removed, it is a nerf to martials.
Quetzalcoatlus
With how underwhelming weapons are on their own, and the weapon swapping rule being back in effect, martial strategy would consist of swapping several weapons around in various cycles. I can’t see how that’s an improvement.
seacliff
I think the general concept of Weapon Mastery is good. Some of the properties are also interesting. But many of the other effects are negligible. I do appreciate how these effects are gained with class abilities rather than feats.
kobo1d
Icebrick and I were working on some of the silly weapon swap ideas yesterday. The path to optimal damage with the rules here is insanity in practice. Is this really the type of complexity people were asking for? Doubtful.
Lilith
Of course, this is gated behind the “Weapon Master” feature, their way of adding “battlemaster maneuver” to all the warriors, it’s all at will, and a few of them are somewhat impactful, it’s the least they could do to make the weapon table not a snore. It’s encouraging some amount of weapon juggling, so you have a few more decision points as a martial. I could see the Ranger picking up the feat for this for Vex.
seacliff
I really like the concept of Martial characters having multiple weapons on hand to use in a variety of situations, but the constant swapping of weapons within turns to maximize efficiency is annoying.
Icebrick1
Yeah, studying it, Trident Throwing with a dagger in the off-hand and Dual Wielder to let Tridents be considered light does actually deal “good” damage (for OneD&D martials), and it can topple foes which is useful.
Quetzalcoatlus
An interesting consideration is that Nick being a thing and hand crossbow not getting it means Ranger cannot even use a feat to get CBE to work with Hunter’s Mark again, which makes it a trap once more. We’ve reverted back to 5E in more ways than one in this UA.
Lilith
Do note though, you have a limited number of effects you learned, and you can’t even combine them. YOU CAN’T EVEN COMBINE THEM. The fighter at 13th level can add 1 more effect, but only use one at a time, WHY?
The Pi Guy
I hate that mental image more than the toy crossbow being the best option in 5e.
Icebrick1
I think the system has some bones though, overall I think a few just need to be buffed like Flex, and classes like Fighter need to be able to use them more, like actually getting to use two at a time rather than just getting to pick one per attack. Martials also need some actually good damage boosting features to go along with it too though.
Lilith
And later on when we look at the versatility option casters get, it will be a world of difference, it’s completely dumbfounding. The potential for weapon swapping for different effects is there, but you have to select a limited number of mastery you can use in the first place, it will be more limiting than it looks.
Icebrick1
Also, I should mention this does not address how useless many weapons are. Why use sickle (nick, light) when light hammers (nick, light, thrown) and daggers (nick, light, thrown, finesse) exist? It’s not like light hammers and daggers are super good in the first place.
Haen
Weapon Mastery is 1% of a step in a needed direction for martials, but it’s badly implemented. However, at least it’s an attempt to give martials anything which demonstrates that someone there puts more thought into game design than the average cat.
Richard Tavadon
None of the features should add extra damage either unless it is a meaningful amount. They should all have an effect worth going out of your way to bring.
Damage should be built in somewhere else.
Lilith
WOTC is deathly afraid of damage bonuses being added synergistically, as we will see in their approach to features that have damage add-ons in this playtest.
seacliff
Additional damage could easily be added to the weapons themselves. They shouldn’t need to have supplementary abilities to deal a margin of additional damage.
kobo1d
Let’s talk about the feats quickly before jumping into the Warriors. Thoughts on the feats (epic boons and Weapon Master)?
Haen
Night spirit >>> everything else.
Icebrick1
Weapon Master might be worth taking on Paladin and Ranger, though I would kind of be surprised if there wasn’t a class feature giving them to those classes. If the “martial” classes all get the Weapon Mastery feature, I don’t see Weapon Master being taken by anyone, except perhaps gish characters late in their career.
Lilith
Epic boons Why is dimensional travel and speed printed next to each other man. Irresistible Offense is laughably out of touch Energy Resistance, Recovery: boring Night spirit: it’s ok.
kobo1d
Icebrick, I believe they said in the marketing videos this time that the Weapon Mastery system will be ported to other weapon-using classes we’ve seen.
Icebrick1
OneD&D has printed a lot of epic boons, but to be honest I just really struggle to care about them. Level 20 play is rather rare, and usually doesn’t last long.
I will say Epic Boon of Irresistible Offensive is offensively bad. I would not expect bludgeoning, piercing, slashing resistance to be common, and the second ability is roughly as good as old Brutal Critical (not very good).
seacliff
I personally don’t have too much to say about the feats. Making Epic Boons level 20 feat options is still an interesting concept, but it’s hard to imagine use cases for them when they become available so late and likely will rarely be seen in actual play.
I’m actually surprised we’ve seen so many Epic Boons, but I would rather see more feat options that will be available at earlier levels.
kobo1d
It does seem like a lot of design emphasis has gone into level 20 feats but it doesn’t seem like there will be any 8, 12, or 16 feats. That seems like a missed opportunity unless it’s coming later.
Lilith
And the class level progression is doing nothing to make level 20 a functional progression outside of one shots either.
seacliff
I’d imagine they expect us to fill in our later feat choices with other 1st and 4th level options, but all that means is that we’re picking third, fourth and fifth priority choices we put aside at levels 1 and 4.
kobo1d
It’s time to unleash your nerd rage. What do you think about the new Barbarian class? Which updates do you like or dislike?
Haen
Rage is harder to break and weapon mastery exists. Danger sense was moved to 7 for some reason. Did anything else change?
Icebrick1
I think the Rage changes are a step in the right direction, making it last much longer and being a little easier to maintain, but I think it would’ve been better if incapacitated still didn’t remove it. In play I often see people forget about it, and I don’t have the heart to remind them.
Lilith
The little rewording to Rage mechanic is a bit more intuitive. The number of rage use is still the biggest problem with this class, and unchanged. No heavy armor allowed, this time spelled out more clearly. Ok Primal knowledge is just an extra skill prof, because the number of rage per day is nowhere near enough to add this superfluous use. And then moving on to later levels, we have the usual shit show. Indomitable might: Why is this worth a whole level? This is even worse than old brutal crit Brutal critical: For getting it 2 levels later, you get DOUBLE the usual brutal critical damage boost, AMAZING! Instead of some 0.675 more dpr or 1.31625 with 3 attacks on a polearm, it is over DOUBLED!
kobo1d
Reckless with thrown weapons was what stuck out to me. Finally, every class is (a little bit) ranged.
Icebrick1
Honestly, while I am biased against ranged, I am kind of biased towards throwing. I just like to support the underdog and I like seeing Reckless support more methods of attack.
Primal Knowledge and Indomitable Might seem like cool boons to Barbarian’s out-of-combat utility, which is sorely needed for most martials (not that this does enough because 5e has a skill check problem, but I’ll take what I can get). Brutal Critical is greatly improved, but still bad. Most other things are roughly the same as normal Barbarian and I have no strong feelings about them.
seacliff
A lot of players seem to be attracted to the part of the Primal Knowledge that allows you to use your Strength check for certain skills while raging. It’s not much of a buff to the Barbarian, but I think it’s a neat concept. I would prefer it if the player didn’t need to rage to use it though.
Lilith
Yea, so, they expect the weapon overhaul to do all the leg work.
Richard Tavadon
And as of right now, it just isn’t there yet.
Haen
The weapon overhaul provided a net power increase I would value at around the power of one decent feat. Not enough to make barbarian a class worth using.
kobo1d
Strength skills also interact with Indomitable Might for pseudo reliable talent. Just to further ensure Rogue is the worst class in the new edition.
Icebrick1
It is deeply funny to me that Barbarian gets that pseudo reliable talent feature two levels before Rogue does. Rogue really has been a punching bag for OneD&D so far, and it wasn’t very good in the first place.
kobo1d
I think WotC systematically overvalues skill use for out of combat utility and a lot of weird choices reflect that.
seacliff
Absolutely agree.
Lilith
The core problem with the Barbarian class remains unaddressed. The only notable change is they no longer have to suffer the ridiculous conundrum of finding a way to self harm if they can’t attack any target
kobo1d
The Berserker seems to have received major updates. What do you all think of the new subclass?
Icebrick1
Ignoring the constant fact martials don’t get nearly enough, I feel pretty positive about Berserker actually.
Frenzy doesn’t come with drawbacks now, and adds to your damage meaningfully. Intimidating Presence is now an AOE, uses Strength rather than Charisma, and doesn’t require your action to extend, which are actually pretty significant buffs. (Though it is limited use now.)
Lilith
Berserker is about the same, a little weaker, but no longer have the self griefing penalty.
Haen
The level 3 feature finally exists, I guess.
Lilith
You get to roll a lot of d6s, you could say, rivaling the rogue, ey? Ey?
kobo1d
I also quite like where this subclass is at. Seems like a good starting point and more interesting to me than most of the vanilla subclasses for other classes in One D&D.
The Pi Guy
It’s a damage dealing feature with 4 restrictions. All of them are simple, but it really speaks towards them making sure that nothing has synergies unless explicitly designed for it
Lilith
Intimidating Presence is a budget fear once per long rest at level 14, let’s not forget to mention how abysmal higher level martial features remains to be
WotC has a hate boner for emergent complexity, part of this play test has been to snuff out ahead of time any and all unintended interaction, past or future
seacliff
Berserker is definitely what the 2014 PHB version needed to be, but it’s still a Barbarian Subclass tied to the Barbarian Class. In a vacuum in the world of just Barbarians, it’s a good Barbarian subclass.
kobo1d
Moving on to the other Warrior here, we have the Fighter. The poster child for the new weapon mastery system. What changes do you like, or not like?
Lilith
Of the few changes the class gets, its features are a little bit more condensed compared to the old one, in addition to the weapon mastery system. It’s a little unexpected that they didn’t spread all the features out like they did with Druid.
Haen
They turned Second Wind to a long rest resource which sucks. The Indomitable change kind of mirrors the change I made in my own rework, although mine is a good deal stronger.
Icebrick1
I don’t get why Fighter’s ability to swap Weapon Masteries has to wait until 7th level, and the ability to use two on the same weapon has to wait until 13th. The 7th level feature should be like, level 1 or 3, and the 13th level one should be 7th level.
Lilith
Not only that Icebrick, but the ability to use “two on the same weapon” is just a more convenient weapon swapping trick If you can still only use one mastery at time, this 13th level feature arrived 10 levels too late.
Weapon masteries are cool! Fighter isn’t actually all that good at them. For a class that’s supposed to be the king of weapon mastery, it’s a bit awkward that they don’t get to ever use two at once.
Or one better than usual, even.
Icebrick1
At the very least most of the other changes (aside from the missing damage buff, but I feel like I’ve talked about too much) are pretty good actually. Indomitable is likely to actually work now, and at 17th level you will have a lot of uses of it.
kobo1d
My players in one of my groups blamed me for the Action Surge change. They may or may not have characters with PTSD from a recurring BBEG that opened fights with fireball-Action Surge-fireball.
Lilith
It’s ridiculous that there’s this many caveats to adding a tiny effect to your attacks, when casters in this same playtest get a bunch of features that can swap anything any time they want
seacliff
Using two weapon masteries at once feels like an obvious cool idea they purposefully went out of their way not to add.
TauNeutrino
Yeah, Indomitable is a lot better than it was before. I’d still rather see it be absolute, but rolling with +9 or more is pretty close. I’m into it.
Lilith
That’s about it for the class changes. Again, it’s the weapon mastery that’s supposed to be doing all the work
Richard Tavadon
Second Wind not being buffed is unfortunate as it quickly becomes negligible amounts of healing.
seacliff
The Indomitable change is good, but the strict limitation isn’t. I know it was that way in base 5e, but it’s still really restrictive for a mid-level martial ability.
Lilith
It’s still not worth a 9th level ability, and not even close to comparable to 5th level spells, at least it’s now doing something instead of nothing
seacliff
Yeah, a buff to one saving throw a day isn’t comparable to one casting of Wall of Force a day. Let alone compared to the Paladin’s passive Aura.
kobo1d
Our last bit of BMX Bandit material before we move on to the Angel Summoners. Is Champion still the champion of being a nearly useless subclass?
Haen
Yes
Lilith
Yes
seacliff
Well, as you said before, they are overvaluing skills.
TauNeutrino
Probably. It’s a bit better than before, it seems?
Icebrick1
I was pretty positive about the new Berserker. New Champion still sucks. It’s a bit better, but getting some stuff early, a single extra skill proficiency, once instance of advantage per fight, and critting on Death Saves at level 14 are not nearly enough to save Champion. Somehow WotC still seems to be overvaluing crit-fishing despite math existing to show that it’s objectively not very good.
seacliff
A single additional skill doesn’t stop making Level 3 a nearly nonexistent level for the Champion subclass.
TauNeutrino
But not enough that it comes anywhere near, say, PHB battlemaster.
Lilith
I guess we’re just never getting Brute back.
Icebrick1
To be honest, I’m really surprised WotC added a series of somewhat fiddly minor features to the dedicated “easy noob” subclass of Champion. If there was a place to put a simple passive damage buff, it was here.
seacliff
If they put Brute here and just called it Champion, I would be a lot more positive about Fighter as a whole.
TauNeutrino
Just give it proficiency to weapon damage rolls or something. Simple, clean, significant boost.
Lilith
You’re not allowed to do that in this era Tau, once per turn please.
TauNeutrino
Hey, spoilers!
seacliff
Once per turn proficiency bonus times per long rest.
Richard Tavadon
Once per turn, while standing on one foot and it is the same damage as the weapon and you cannot add additional damage or effects using Weapon Mastery if you add this proficiency damage.
kobo1d
I will now herald the arrival of the new god kings, the One D&D mages. First up we have the widely buffed, innate magic Sorcerer. How does it look?
Haen
I hate what they did with Sorc. It’s clearly supposed to be the “haha funny random” class… meanwhile Clockwork Soul. Or Aberrant Mind – order that we do not comprehend is still order. All the spells they gave Sorcerer are bad. Chaos Bolt does less damage than unbuffed Magic Missile, the healing thing is just trash and the 5th-level spell is a joke.
Lilith
Let’s leave twinned spell for later and cover the smaller changes first. New spells are terrible. They’ve once again overvalued damage type. Chaos bolt is somehow supposed to be the flagship identity of the sorcerer, it’s still bad.
Icebrick1
Sorcerer got buffed, which is bad for balance, but I think the new features will be fun to play with at least. They got a few more spells known, and access to the entire Arcane List. Most of the Sorcerer exclusive spells you get are bad, but Arcane Eruption is quite good actually.
Quetzalcoatlus
The metamagic changes were an overall positive, and access to the whole Arcane list is huge. Power wise it’s great, even if I hate all of the “random, lol” spells they force down your throat. Bad features don’t make a class worse, they just don’t contribute with anything
Haen
On the plus side, Wish is basically an 8th-level spell for sorcerers and you can challenge a rat to a staring contest at 15th level to get unlimited sorcery points
Icebrick1
I feel like some people here might’ve missed Arcane Eruption.
TauNeutrino
I wish they wouldn’t tuck away class features into spells like this, or at least would put the spells in the statblock entry. It’s just a strange layout choice, forcing people to flip to the spells section to learn what their class features do.
kobo1d
We have “prepared spells” here, but it is a lie. This is a spells known caster when you actually read how it works.
Lilith
Does Arcane Eruption not have a duration for its debuff? Do you just permanently blind people?
Haen
1 round debuff
Not worth -3d6 damage for a random 1-round debuff compared to Fireball
Quetzalcoatlus
Arcane Eruption is quite decent, I just don’t like it conceptually
kobo1d
I like to think of Arcane Eruption as a downcast Synaptic Static. I think it’s probably really good.
Lilith
Still a terrible rng spell
Icebrick1
Note that you get to pick from all the dice you rolled which debuff you get. If you rolled any 1’s, you can use incapacitation.
seacliff
Well, assuming the Animate Dead spell remains unchanged, the Sorcerer’s ability to create a higher-level spell slot than they actually have spells for is more universally interesting regardless of subclass.
Lilith
The debuffs from the table are half and half, but c’mon, it’s a 4th level spell slot. This is basically rehash of Confusion.
TauNeutrino
Yeah, arcane eruption is honestly comparable to the synaptic static of old, which is very promising.
Richard Tavadon
Ignoring all the fluff and junk they threw at sorcerer, granting them additional spells “prepared” is a buff no matter how you look at it.
Quetzalcoatlus
Well, not additional since they don’t say it doesn’t count against their spells prepared, right?
Esker
I thought it was interesting how they made Arcane Eruption self-compensating: the worse your damage rolls the better your odds of having stronger control. Not a significant feature, but a neat trick.
Xenken
Aye, I like the debuff-as-damage-compensation element of that spell. It’s a cool mechanic.
TauNeutrino
Yeah, it’s neat. One of my favorite parts of this document, probably.
kobo1d
Every Sorcerer has full Arcane, buffed metamagic, and 22+ spells. This Sorcerer is probably stronger than any 5e base class as a starting point.
Haen
Aside from Twinned, is any metamagic worth more than just creating more spell slots tbh?
Lilith
Even with all these changes, it’s still spell access that makes up most of the power budget of anything in this game
TauNeutrino
That said, it’s a Constitution save, not an Intelligence save. Still, I’m always happy to cast decent blasts that come with no-concentration control on top. I’m a fan of new careful spell! It looks quite powerful.
Lilith
If you pretend modify spell doesn’t exist, new careful is a pretty welcoming improvement
seacliff
Regardless of abilities or new spells, more spells and access to more good spells is just an objective buff.
TauNeutrino
Being able to put your dangerous spells on top of your allies is very useful – that’s a lot of why devotion paladin was so good in 5e. Yes, careful spell looks a bit lacking compared to the elephant in the room…but that elephant is an elephant.
Haen
Twinned fireball, yay
kobo1d
Extended now gives advantage on Con saves. Easy to miss. Similarly, Subtle removes M components.
Icebrick1
I’m not sure Extended is worth casting when War Caster exists, but I’m glad it serves more of a purpose.
Lilith
The use we had for subtle was some roleplay, and otherwise to bypass counterspell, removing M adds to both of those uses.
TauNeutrino
Subtle being buffed to actually be subtle for more spells is definitely nice, yeah.
The Pi Guy
Yeah, there aren’t actually that many spells i ever needed to double the duration of, to a cap of 24 hours.
TauNeutrino
It failed to bypass counterspell with M components before under Xanathar’s rules, if I remember right? If it had any components, it was noticeable.
The Pi Guy
Correct.
kobo1d
I think we complain a lot about underwhelming capstones. But damn if Sorcerer doesn’t have a CAPSTONE in Arcane Apotheosis.
Xenken
I don’t think Subtle really changed, although I’m glad it has less random fail moments out of combat. I predict using Twinned to Fireball More will be very popular. I know it’s a questionable idea, but I still wish WoTC wouldn’t be cowards and just give me AoE Heighten.
seacliff
Life-Dipped Divine Soul Extended Aura of Vitality is funny for seeing how much you could squeeze out of a single spell. But it isn’t actually practical.
TauNeutrino
True, kobo1d, the capstone is great. I think the class does feel better, at least.
It’s a step in the right direction for sorcerer, whereas the other mage classes here… we’ll talk about them when we get there.
Haen
Distant Spell + Thunderclap cantrip.
Richard Tavadon
Freeish casting of wish (best spell in the game bar none) or Extra Attack (11.5ish Damage on a hit) or +2 Strength… Hard choice I am sure.
TauNeutrino
All these class features being spun off into tightly-coupled, less-readable spells makes me suspect an author of this playtest used to be a corporate Java developer.
Lilith
Spells are harder to adjust to the new paradigm of the devs, whereas martial abilities are just numbers, martials get kneecapped and put into their place more readily.
Some comments on twinned spell. Twinned spell is deemed problematic in the design notes because it is “Too powerful, since it basically allowed you to cast two spells on the same turn (as in Quickened Spell) and to cast the extra spell with a Sorcery Point discount.” I hate this line of thought. You spend limited resources to “Cheat” the rule of the game, that was the whole point. The good options to use with Twin were already limited and it introduced interesting synergies to single target spells that are otherwise overlooked. New twin is just trading your in-combat options for a minor cost discount.
TauNeutrino
Old twinned spell was a unique and interesting capability that only sorcerer did. New twinned spell is – more boring? It’s more juice. It’s not weak, per se – being better at fireball spam or arcane eruption spam or whatever isn’t bad – but it had a lot of charm and it doesn’t anymore.
Richard Tavadon
Crucially, Twinned Spell does not work with concentration spells anymore. I guess the twin haste trap is gone.
Esker
The fact that Twinned Spell essentially can no longer be used on concentration spells is an odd choice, or side effect of a choice. I’m not sure which.
TauNeutrino
In general the document makes a lot of missteps, but a lot of those missteps are made in interesting directions. There’s more to work with here.
Xenken
My biggest gripe with twinned is just that it doesn’t feel like Twinning something. I’d almost want the name changed to Repeat Spell or whatever.
Esker
The Twinned Spell change also allows them to dodge still not giving us clear spell targeting rules, which was probably my #1 ask as far as rules clarifications.
TauNeutrino
Right? It’s fascinating the lengths they go to avoid specifying a target line.
seacliff
Twinned is almost entirely useless for most concentration spells too. Albeit that might be intentional.
Lilith
“Echoed spell: When you cast a spell, you can spend sorcery points equal to the spell level to make it cast again automatically next round (no action required), you choose the location and target of the second cast when this occurs.” There, fixed it. Instead of limiting your spell choice in exchange for the extra cast, the cost becomes making it telegraphed instead of more interactions, a worthwhile payoff.
kobo1d
Draconic Sorcery, what do you think of this one, team?
Icebrick1
Draconic Sorcerer is I think better, but to be honest I was never that interested in the subclass in the first place. Draconic Resilience’s AC isn’t worth using when Medium Armor (and the Lightly Armored feat) exists, Draconic Exhalation’s modification of a cantrip is a cool idea, but it’s too bad the cantrip sucks and it being a cone doesn’t help enough.
seacliff
Even if it’s a caster buff, not having to spend Sorcery Points to have a temporary resistance is a good change.
kobo1d
I think we might see all the Sorc subclasses reworked into using the built-in Sorc spells like Draconic, and I don’t like it.
The Pi Guy
No part of the subclass makes me actually want to play with it, the coolest effect they gain is a 15 foot radius aura of 5 damage at level 14.
Icebrick1
Oh yeah, I totally forgot about the 14th level change to Draconic Sorcerer. This seems bad. I don’t think Sorcery Incarnate is worth casting even with those additional features. It was really funny in the video though when they said the original with constant wings was overpowered, when flying races exist.
The Pi Guy
Wow, I didn’t even realize it was only when you have the spell cast. That’s terrible.
TauNeutrino
Yeah, permanent flight was just fine at 14th level and much cooler than a flight + a tiny bit of splash damage when you cast sorcery incarnate.
Quetzalcoatlus
Especially considering I really do not want to cast sorcery incarnate.
TauNeutrino
Should a dragon sorcerer, at the apex of their bloodline-fueled power, really have to walk everywhere? If someone gets permanent flight, it should probably be them.
Xenken
I’ll admit that less permanent non conc flight in game is probably a good thing, abstractly, but I agree that if anyone gets it they should.
kobo1d
Sure would be great if they stopped printing flying player species then!
seacliff
Feels underwhelming when Genie Warlock gets something similar at Level 6, but I guess they wouldn’t if they tried to adapt that subclass into One DnD.
Esker
Yeah I think we should probably set aside existing 5e subclass features when evaluating here since although 5.5e will allegedly be backward compatible with 5e adventures, it’s certainly not going to be with 5e player options.
Icebrick1
Well, there was the creator summit where they said they will include guides on how to convert old 5e subclasses into the revision, but I’m just kind of praying that it doesn’t become culturally acceptable in the community.
Lilith
Just leave it up to the DM to homebrew and houserule around it, it’s their game after all, duh.
TauNeutrino
Permanent non-concentration flight is a problem at lower levels. At higher levels… I don’t know, I feel like by the point you’re fighting a 14th level party, a monster should be able to have something against flight.
kobo1d
Now to the class that seems to have started more Reddit threads than anything else in this whole document: Warlock. We have very nearly an entirely new class here with the sweeping changes. Do you love or hate this new direction?
Haen
I despise it with the fire of a thousand stars.
Mystic Arcanum is now a 4-invocation tax, Lost Pact Magic, Lost multiclassing.
I declare war on WOTC.
Xenken
I think anyone who liked short resting would prefer old pact magic to half casting, but anyone who didn’t won’t.
Quetzalcoatlus
It feels as though they’ve been stripped of their identity completely.
Lilith
The big question with Warlock in its redesign is: How do you reconcile the resource cycle disparity between the classes most recognized in Warlock?
Haen
Also anyone can get all three pact boons through Wish.
Icebrick1
Warlock got neutered. Half-Casting is a lot worse than Pact Magic in almost all cases. Mystic Arcanum is now an Invocation tax and they only gave you one more to compensate. The hex related features are insulting.
Haen
And familiars are gutted. Hex also wasn’t worth casting before, now it’s even worse.
Lilith
The answer is to make it more like wizard, so they created this abomination
Xenken
“Look you have 14 spell slots now when you only had like 3 this is great!” vs “damn I used to be able to cast 15 synaptic statics and now I can’t this sucks”
Lilith
Ok, one positive thing: Medium armor at base. If you were not dipping warlock, Moderately Armored was pretty much an autopick already, so, hooray!
The Pi Guy
I’m definitely more likely to play a full classed warlock now than dipping, but someone pointed out that they have the weirdest spell progression in the game: 1-4: only 1st level spells 5: 1-3rd thanks to mystic arcanum.
Lilith
Hex: “You can deal this damage once per turn”. This has been a very baseline, low hanging fruit combo that’s popular with the players, hex + anything that lets you make multiple attack rolls. Back to the point about WotC developing its hate boner for interactions: if it’s popular, it must be super strong and problematic
Esker
I really dislike the fact that they so thoroughly dismantled what was in my opinion one of the best designed classes in 5e in Warlock, while leaving some of the worst designed ones pretty much the same. Not that there weren’t tweaks needed for Warlock, and I see the motivation to get rid of short rest spell slots, but still. They were mechanically distinctive in the way they always cast at their highest level, and in this edition they are just another half-spellcaster.
Haen
I would like to point out that Hex being nerfed does not invalidate the Warlock baseline, because the monsters that will kill you if you don’t kill them first haven’t been changed.
Lilith
What is the new Warlock’s class identity?
It’s nothing, it’s just an inferior traditional caster with annoying and janky limitation on its invocation options
TauNeutrino
Warlock becoming a half-caster is pretty sad to me. Pact magic was unique and interesting and I understand that there were issues with short rest economy being inconsistent but ripping the spellcasting out of warlock is sad.
Richard Tavadon
The wording on the conversion is just so disingenuous as well. “The most-requested change to Warlocks has been for them to be able to use their spells more often. They therefore now cap out at 15 Spell Slots instead of 4” Losing standard access to fifth levels at level 9 and moving it to level 17 is a massive reduction in power.
Xenken
It does suck that Warlock is the closest thing 5e has to the “I can do this all day!” fantasy that so many people want and the devs want to kill it.
seacliff
The direction of Warlock is a Half-Caster with little else going for it. Mystic Arcanum as an invocation keeps them from being left entirely in the dust, but it’s really an unscary neff.
Esker
And yet, despite the massive nerfs, Warlock still looks more effective at being a martial than martials.
TauNeutrino
Also I’m not sure why they nerfed hex. Seriously? The spell was only any good because the rest of the warlock list was questionable at low levels.
Esker
Yeah, the change to Hex makes little sense.
Xenken
The playtest class isn’t even strictly speaking that bad. It’s Artificer type half casting with enough slots for web that will then collect magic jar/simulacrum in tier 3 and win. But it’s still disappointing.
kobo1d
If I can submit a slightly differing opinion: I think in the context of the new edition, Warlock as a whole is actually in a pretty decent spot. If you take all the Mystic Arcanum you can, you aren’t really that far behind the other full casters. If we Mandela-effect-ed the 5e Warlock from existence, and this was presented as a wholly new option to the world, I think we would really like this new Arcane Half-Caster.
Icebrick1
Warlock, despite being worse in almost all ways, is probably still a rather powerful half-caster simply for the fact they get access to 6-9th level arcane spells.
Lilith
What are these changes even catered to? The problem with Warlock was people playing one encounter days, well the playtest does not expect one encounter day, but it also wants to remove features from short rest as much as it can.
Esker
Except that in order to regain some of the lost ground via Mystic Arcana, they have to spend precious invocations, which is probably the single most interesting thing about Warlock in 5e. And now not only are they being taxed by Agonizing Blast using up an invocation, they are also heavily pressured to use several more on Mystic Arcana, which leaves them with, what, maybe 1-2 actually free slots?
kobo1d
It’s worse than 5e Warlock, and it’s worse than the other Mages. But it’s STILL better than most of the other classes in the new edition. Don’t forget you can go Wisdom primary now, and you have full Arcane access, both of which are big buffs themselves.
Richard Tavadon
It is also unfortunate but it seems to me that the real reason for this was that it was a part of their attempt at class homogenization similar to their change to spell lists.
seacliff
Well, I admit to being someone who enjoys playing the 5e Artificer, so I do agree I might be more positive if this was presented as a new class option alongside a more faithful Warlock update.
TauNeutrino
Repelling Blast is large or smaller only now, which is disappointing to me but understandable, I guess?
Esker
I also think everyone expected them to nerf Repelling Blast by limiting it to once per turn. Instead they… nerfed Hex to be once per turn, let Repelling Blast work on every hit, but limited it to Large or smaller creatures.
Xenken
I think the pacts need invocations less, and you get 1 more a bit earlier, so the tier 1-2 invocation situation is probably better in 5e. But the cool high level invocs that weren’t that strong are dead in this version.
kobo1d
Tome is just clearly the best Pact I think. Guidance, Resistance, access to every level 1 ritual given 70 minutes, and frees up Agonizing Blast at level 5.
Lilith
All the pact boons at level 1 also are an incentive to dip warlock, albeit for a very different reason. When I was making my weird gimmick builds, it’s often the Warlock chassis that generally add the most spice. Disappointing how WotC failed to recognize its class identity in this rework.
Xenken
Like remember how our basic builds warlock got arcane eye and speak with dead at will as invocations later? Yeah no sorry those are forcecages now and you’re gonna like it.
Esker
RIP Ghostly Gaze, a cool out of combat option that I tried to squeeze into Warlock builds if I could.
Xenken
Although on that note, gaze of two minds got significantly buffed right? You can cast spells through the other person now?
kobo1d
Yes we must mention Gaze of Two Minds. You can keep it up forever, and adventure from the safety of an inn as a Warlock with hirelings, or another PC.
Lilith
That is indeed very cool.
kobo1d
Imagine a party of four Warlocks, that hires armored mercenaries to Dodge their way through dungeons while the Warlocks exterminate the inhabitants of the dungeon completely remotely. I love the world building implications, honestly. What an assassination method!
Esker
a la (Star Wars spoiler) Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi
Xenken
Warlock at Home is definitely fun and cool.
kobo1d
Or you could have one PC spec into defense completely, and they go solo with remote Warlock support.
Lilith
Ahhh the warlock at home, reminds me of that time I made a concept of a Scribe Wizard who never meets their party.
Esker
It’s also a really neat trick for DMs to use I think, not that DMs should be making BBEGs via PC class features.
Xenken
And now that it’s here it honestly feels kinda weird that wizard and druid can do it in 5e but not warlock.
kobo1d
I’ve made a deal with a fiend to keep this discussion moving. What do you think of the new version of The Fiend?
Esker
I’ll be honest, I haven’t read it because I skipped past the rest of Warlock after seeing how they maimed the base class. I guess I’ll have a look now.
Icebrick1
Fiend’s range on Temp HP being a whopping 5 feet is a huge nerf to the class. In the video, this was billed as a buff so you can benefit from creatures dying near you that you didn’t kill. I assumed the range would be like 30-60 feet, but nope, it’s 5.
Esker
they took away Fireball?
TauNeutrino
It’s just Arcane now, right? So they can get it anyway.
Esker
oh, right. Ok
Lilith
I’m in the same camp with Esker here
TauNeutrino
Warlock becoming a half caster for very little compensation (and having to spend invocations to get mystic arcanum) makes everything else look sort of dismal for it.
Richard Tavadon
Fiend, and I imagine the other warlock subclasses, are going to suffer from the fact that they are now attached to a half-caster and thus need to put in quite a bit of work to make the class worthwhile. Fiend is hit especially hard since it was the “blaster” subclass that had an identity that frankly revolved around blasting fireballs which is now locked behind 9 extra levels of progression.
TauNeutrino
I like that the subclasses give them free spells, though, rather than just expanding their list? A bit of compensation.
seacliff
Dark One’s own luck being based on a spellcasting modifier is an unexpected change. I mean, I knew it would be changed to a long rest resource, but I didn’t expect us to go back to the Xanathar days and base it on modifiers rather than proficiency bonus.
Lilith
Dark One’s Blessing change is consistent with WotC trying to remove short rest from the game.
kobo1d
If your fourth level slots weren’t in short supply from the class rework, Hurl through Hell does seem worth recasting.
Lilith
Hurl through hell is now a decent alternative to Banishment.
kobo1d
Especially as banishment was also gutted in a previous packet.
Icebrick1
I’m not sure Hurl Through Hell is actually better. The damage can now be halved on a Wisdom Save. Though I guess the ability to use on hit with an attack and the ability to fuel it with 4th level slots is good. Overall I think Fiend’s change in Temp HP generation is bad nerf that makes playing it with a non-melee Warlock unfun (not that melee Warlock will likely be super fun).
Richard Tavadon
It is also banishment 7 levels after wizards and sorcerers get access to it.
TauNeutrino
I like Hurl through Hell, I just wish it was on old Warlock, that was a pact caster.
Lilith
I’m a little surprised they didn’t try to write around bag of rats with Dark One’s Blessing. But overall the feature is a lot less interesting now.
Esker
Dark One’s Blessing does have a bag of rats interaction to it, but it’s not all that powerful an interaction since it’s temp HP. It just means you can start every fight with the temps. Better to just let them activate it with a minute’s worth of time or something though.
kobo1d
Well folks, they aren’t called WIZARDS of the Coast for nothing. Let’s wrap things up with the final mage class. What are your thoughts on the changes to what most of us argue has been the most powerful 5e class?
seacliff
OH BOY. WIZARDS.
Xenken
Oh god. Have you ever wanted to play 5e with mod support?
Richard Tavadon
All hail the once and forever kings.
Lilith
Lamenting right now
kobo1d
(That’s another one of Esker’s projects, Xenken! Shout out to the Solasta modders)
Lilith
Ok so, spell modification. Wizard’s class identity was to have a lot of spells right? In contrast to Sorcerer who supposedly is more specialized in their spell usage. Well worry no more, Wizards can do everything now! My first comment here is it’s such a ridiculously missed opportunity to solidify the “spell specialization” niche Sorcerer was supposed to have.
Xenken
I’ll lead with the single way they got worse: Arcane Recovery to 2, subclass to 3, and the new feature they got to fill in level 2 looks useless.
Icebrick1
There is another way they got worse, at certain levels they will likely have less spells prepared than before (though at other levels, they might have more).
Richard Tavadon
The new Study action itself seems interesting, but I agree that they are overvaluing skills with the new Academic feature.
Esker
I will say I think in concept, Modify Spell, Create Spell, etc. are really cool. But the way they’re written here, hooboy. Way too strong.
Lilith
It’s really cool as a Sorcerer class feature
TauNeutrino
Yeah. Friendly sleet storm, friendly transmute rock…
seacliff
Making them all ritual spells is just icing on the cake.
TauNeutrino
Changing targets on wall of stone is utterly busted no matter how you read it!
Lilith
It’s the kind of feature that I would spend hours and hours with, looking for synergies, interactions, everything. Putting this on the Wizard is utter insanity. If you’re looking for a caster, nothing’s worth a salt to Wizard in both power and interactions.
Icebrick1
Modify Spell and Create Spell are the big deal, the other changes aren’t really too interesting. These two spells are cool, and to me, they fit in well with the Wizard class fantasy. However, the abilities you can give them are ridiculous. Most notably, making concentration unbreakable and making enemy-only fog cloud, sleet storm, etc. are game-breakingly powerful.
Esker
also mind-boggling that they introduced metamagic-as-spell with so much flexibility, given that in most other areas they seem to be trying to snuff out avenues for doing anything unexpected or creative with your class features, but I guess full casters have been getting a pass in that area from day one.
Richard Tavadon
Spell Mastery down to 15 is also allows you to cast infinite shield at a level more approachable in the majority of campaigns.
kobo1d
Specific options within Modify Spell seem to be the issue. Unbreakable concentration, enemy-only crowd control, rituals that shouldn’t be rituals. Let’s say these options are removed or very drastically weakened. Is the design salvageable?
Xenken
You could legitimately write multiple articles on all the frankly stupid things modify spell does. Ritual Fabricate, Scrying, Mirage Arcane…
TauNeutrino
Neat trick: Wall of Force that only targets allies. Your enemies do not get pushed out of the wall when it appears!
Either this just immobilizes them or it cuts them in half. I’m sure it’ll be fine!
That, or creatures not being able to walk through it is affecting those creatures, in which case you have a one-way wall of force. Which is even more busted.
Lilith
What if martial caster disparity, but introduced to Wizard vs other caster too. Hey, remember how a Wizard had to CHOOSE its spells? Now they have the entire spell book with Memorize spell.
Esker
Oh, and also bizarre to introduce a new massive power source from down time. When they should be trying to even out power levels between parties that have a lot of downtime and parties that don’t have much. In my opinion, at least.
Icebrick1
I think the design could be saved if the changes were more reasonable. Change damage type, increase damage but increase spell level, change an AOE into a different roughly equivalent AOE, all of these could be fun to play around with and not too overpowered. In many ways I think it’s a good idea! But poorly executed, which has been a running theme throughout OneD&D.
TauNeutrino
Scribe Spell being a spell is curious, though. If you lose your spellbook, you can’t cast spells, so you can’t write a new one either? Maybe you can buy a spellbook with Scribe Spell in it, or something.
kobo1d
Creating a new spell also bypasses the spell stacking rules in disgusting ways because it gives them a new name. So they will have to fix that unless we want 2d8 GoA and double of the same crowd control spells to be a thing.
Esker
Spell Mastery at 15 I actually like. It’s a cool feature that lets you worry a bit less about resource management, but it comes so late in 5e. You know, apart from the fact that it’s another buff to Wizard in the context of a widening martial-caster gap
Lilith
Now we add to that a caster-Wizard gap
Esker
Yeah, even with Sorcerer getting hefty buffs as well.
kobo1d
On the whole, without changes, it seems like Wizards are S+ tier, Sorcerers S-, then the other casters near the top, then the magic-less martials playing around with their scimitar and lance and trident juggles in the lowest tiers of power.
TauNeutrino
Wizard simply cannot stop winning and this is becoming a problem
Esker
obligatory remark about it not being called Fighters of the Coast
Xenken
Man I didn’t even think through all the enemy-only targeting stuff, good lord. There’s levels to this.
Esker
Well, it’s not becoming a problem, it’s already a problem. It’s just becoming worse and worse with just about every new piece of content released
Lilith
Modify Spell, Create Spell, a super cool feature applied to the game in the worst way possible, to the point that spending time thinking about its multitude of combos is pointless because the game’s already snapped in half, grinded to dust, and yeeted into the sun at this point.
Xenken
Although I guess if you needed a reason for wizards to tell us how spell targeting works…
Esker
Has anyone brought up the thing where you can now stack the same spell with itself because you created a version which has a different name?
TauNeutrino
kobo1d did. It’s a problem.
seacliff
This isn’t even reiterating the point, that at this point in the playtest, Lightly Armored gives Wizards more AC than Martials who want to deal decent damage.
TauNeutrino
Modify Spell and Create Spell are really cool! I genuinely like them in concept. They’re just morbidly overtuned.
Esker
Yep
Lilith
Heck, give this spell modify stuff to Warlock to compensate for its lost kneecap.
kobo1d
Do you all have any evocative language to describe how you feel about the new Evoker?
Esker
I see what you did there.
TauNeutrino
There are so many things you can do with it! It’s so interesting! But friendly sleet storm and wall of X and transmute rock… and all of that permanently with little opportunity cost. Who knows, maybe gold is a limiting factor? But unless they’re significantly changing treasure hoards, at level 9 you can easily start getting your hands on tier 3 treasure hoards, which are worth tens of thousands of gold pieces each. (Antipathy/Sympathy as a ritual is particularly disgusting, while we’re on the subject.)
Esker
I like the move toward school-based subclasses getting extra spells in that school, though since they still count toward preps it’s probably not that big an impact in practice
TauNeutrino
Agree, Esker.
Lilith
We have game changing, world changing effects given to Wizards, and the power budget of martials is tiny damage bonus once per turn.
kobo1d
I think I heard that magic items may have prices again, so gold might actually be a tight resource.
TauNeutrino
If you can buy magic items with gold, then Create Spell becomes relatively less disgusting, yeah. Even just a few spells modified with it is plenty, though.
Richard Tavadon
Hey Evoker also gets a tiny damage bonus once per turn as well. The difference of course being you can be a subclassless wizard and still the strongest character in a party at the moment.
TauNeutrino
At the end of the day, you don’t need that many broken spells. A few is usually good enough.
Icebrick1
I feel like the Evoker changes are pretty small compared to the looming threat of Modify and Create spell. I think the changes are overall minor and good.
Esker
Sculpt Spells is exactly unchanged, right? Which is fine since it’s a great feature. Empowered Evocation is also unchanged, so we still have Magic Missile Fun Times. Which is surprising since we know they know that that exists and that not every table follows the relevant rule, but they did nothing to either clarify or change it.
kobo1d
I bet Magic Missile weirdness will be smoothed over with a revision to the spell itself.
Esker
via the general rule about damage rolls?
TauNeutrino
Probably they’ll just make it actually roll one die per missile.
Esker
Overall they largely left Evoker alone. And in itself I’m really fine with that since I think it’s one of the better designed subclasses, apart from Potent Cantrip being a nonfeature. Now at least it works with the cantrips you’re probably using most often.
TauNeutrino
Yeah, the evoker changes were small but welcome. Nothing massive.
Esker
One die per missile is better for the game, I think. Lower variance in damage makes balancing easier.
TauNeutrino
Sculpt Spells is made relatively worse by Modify Spell existing, mind – every wizard has a sculpt-like effect, now. It’s still a decent feature, especially at level 5-8 and if gold is an issue later.
Esker
That’s true. I guess they get it at 3rd, and for Fireball right at 5th, whereas everyone else has to wait until 7th
Lilith
Balancing on gold economy is not very relevant when the system’s not built around gold still.
kobo1d
Ok to close things out, clearly as a group we have some major complaints with the content of this latest playtest. To be optimistic, perhaps we can help to turn things around with our feedback. If you had to pick one single thing that you could ask our readers to talk about in their feedback, what would it be?
Lilith
Give the spell modification effects to ANYONE but Wizards
Esker
They have to be toned down if they’re going to exist at all, for any class
Lilith
I really don’t know what to say about Warlocks, being changed like this seems unsalvageable.
Esker
apart from that though, I think I would emphasize that Weapon Masteries are a cool idea, but they need to (a) be less afraid of letting them combine, and (b) they don’t actually make up for gutting Power Attack feats
TauNeutrino
Modify spell’s targeting effect should only work on instantaneous duration spells, if it works at all.
Esker
oh, and destroying one of their best creations in Warlock. Yeah, really hard to pick one thing
TauNeutrino
The Weapon Masteries need better names, also. You’re telling me my master of martial combat is good at fighting because they can use… Nick? with their scimitar?
Esker
That seems like a good fix, Tau
Lilith
Warlocks are dead, the Warlock guide coming up next will double as my eulogy for it.
TauNeutrino
Oh, also the ritual effect of modify spell needs to be fixed somehow to not break antipathy/sympathy.
But that spell was already broken so doing that spell-side is reasonable.
It’s a genuinely excellent concept for wizard to have, just needs to be toned down.
Esker
The bottom line at this point though is that as flawed as 5e is, I would take the status quo over the full gamut of changes proposed so far.
TauNeutrino
yeah, there’s a lot that’s a step in the right direction, but some gaping holes.
Esker
and even though there are good ideas here that in principle could be salvaged and built around, I find it really hard to believe that WotC is capable of doing that at this point.
TauNeutrino
I think if you added the 5e weapon feats (crossbow expert/sharpshooter/polearm master/great weapon master) and 5e warlock to oned&d, while nerfing modify spell as I proposed, it might be fine? It’s really just a lack of martial damage that’s my problem with the martials shown so far. Alongside the usual systemic critiques, but there’s at least a step in the right direction. Make fighter actually better at using weapon masteries please
Lilith
What was the shopping list Moon wrote again? “Combat duration, stall tactics, the fact that optimized parties need 24 encounter days to run dry, the utter un-preparability of game content for this game, or the lack of out of combat systems that players can rely on to influence the narrative in any non-geocidal way.” The core problems of the game remain unaddressed, and we get new problems on top the biggest positive so far has been a few creative ideas here and there and some wording cleanup.
Esker
What if full martials just got to add their martial class level to their weapon damage, as a static modifier, and halfcasters got to add half of it? They’ll never do that because people will scream “OP”, but would that actually be a simple and balanced solution that avoids dipping abuses? Well, except for Rogue I guess.
seacliff
I want to see more work put into Weapon Mastery. It’s a good start, but I think Weapons should do more damage by default and many of the properties should be more diverse and interesting.
TauNeutrino
Fighter being a “weapon generalist” is fine, that’s interesting enough, but it should give them at least a little bit of vertical power compared to just having one weapon mastery (no, lance + scimitar/shortsword, you don’t quite count) rather than being only horizontal. I agree that weapon mastery is promising.
Icebrick1
Ask for damage increases for martial characters, and nerfs to spellcasters. And please don’t let Modify/Create Spell see print as-is (but to be fair I really doubt it will).
TauNeutrino
Adding full level to damage might just escalate rocket tag too fast, honestly. At low levels, it’s reasonable, but scales too fast for my liking.
Esker
Once per turn?
Lilith
Damage increase for martials would require them evaluating power budget of spells on the same paradigm they do with their attack feature bonuses, using a proper encounter day assumption to match.
kobo1d
I think the full scope redesign I would most like for martial classes is unrealistic given the timeline and the current stance at WotC for the new edition. So for me personally, that’s feeling a lot like a lost cause. It’s hard to enthusiastically get behind the mid-ground buffs and tweaks that will get them closer because I can’t see a world in which I would yearn to play one myself long-term, even if they pump the martial damage above 5e levels. I can get my “play a martial fix” by playing as a DM. Nothing in other RPGs really plays like a D&D spellcaster though, so I will focus on making that experience better in my own feedback.
TauNeutrino
Martials getting half level rounded up (maybe cleanly for fighter, added through something rage-like for barbarian, etc.) and half casters getting something unique that scales appropriately would be my recommendation, honestly. That or just – bringing back 5e martial feats. They’re not my favorite things in the world but they do the trick.
Lilith
Old martial feats were strong standout options in a jungle of trap and fluff, no. It has to be built in to set a proper baseline.
TauNeutrino
And as much as sharpshooter removing cover from the game for enemies is griped about, being able to asymmetrically shoot around cover as part of your damage feat is really cool, it makes archers feel like they have an identity as being incredibly precise or quick to the shot or whatever.
Esker
I did a rough analysis yesterday that sort of tried to do that, Lilith. I used 5e Warlock as the reference point, evaluating spell slots using sorcery point cost to create them, and assuming 1.5 short rests per day. The bottom line I got was that full martials need to get +3 DPR per level over and above Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast scaling, and half-casters need about +1.2 DPR per level.
TauNeutrino
That is fair, Lilith. It doesn’t have to be feats in particular, just something at least half that power level.
Esker
And it turned out, by the way, that Battlemaster CBE+SS+Archery+Action Surge+Superiority Dice doing only direct damage was a pretty good damage target for full martials at low levels, though it fell behind into Tier 2.
kobo1d
Thank you all for your time, and despite your efforts to dodge my “one thing to change” final question completely, what we got instead was as good an ending as anything. See you next time!
Esker
I tried to engage with it, but 50 pages of content makes it really hard to pick just one thing!
“I am beginning to doubt that the design team or teams have any concern about making a balanced game.”
Beginning?!